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Monday, May 14, 2012,
Commissioners met in regular session with
Chairman Ron Smith, Commissioner Walt Kirby, and
Deputy Clerk Michelle Rohrwasser. Commissioner
Dan Dinning was out of the office tending to a
personal matter.
Sonny Munier and Connie
DeCoe-Munier joined the meeting.
Road and Bridge
Superintendent Jeff Gutshall joined the meeting
to give the departmental report. Mr. Gutshall
presented a written report. Mr. Gutshall said
Road and Bridge has been working on the District
5 Road and the next thing will be to cut it down
with the grader to get a wider sub-base. This
portion of road is between the old Hubbard and
new Hubbard place. Mr. Gutshall said he
contacted the Kootenai Tribe to seek assistance
in dust abatement and found out they had scaled
the project way back and it is under review
again. Mr. Gutshall said he will just continue
on with the road work.
Mr. Gutshall said Road and
Bridge will finish the rock work on
Pine Island Road.
Gravel has also been hauled to
Smith Lake Road
as there has been erosion caused by rain. The
Durapatcher has been used a lot and it is being
used on Lion’s Den Road,
Copeland Road, and others.
Mr. Gutshall spoke of the materials used in the
Durapatcher.
Mr. Gutshall said he is
just about done brooming sand off the roads a
far as he is aware. Chairman Smith asked when a
road is seal coated is there ever a chance Road
and Bridge would not broom it off. Mr. Gutshall
said sometimes traffic blows it off, but it is
better to broom it off.
Mr. Gutshall spoke of the
culvert on Wheeler Road.
This is a three foot culvert that was installed
back in the mid 1990’s by Charlie Kramer. The
culvert is too high and cannot be lowered,
according to Mr. Gutshall. When Road and Bridge
took a look at this culvert back in year 2007
the thought was the culvert was placed right on
top of the waterlines. Mr. Gutshall said the
culverts cannot be installed below the waterline
so maybe the other option is to install a series
of smaller culverts, which he normally does not
like to do.
Mr. Gutshall spoke of dust
abatement measures for year 2012. Mr. Gutshall
said County Attorney Phil Robinson said the
County can extend the 2011 agreement with Oxford
Inc., for dust palliative materials.
Commissioner Kirby moved to
sign the Independent Contractor Agreement with
Oxford Inc., for the 2011 dust abatement program
and the contract extending that agreement.
Chairman Smith yielded the chair to second.
Motion passed unanimously.
Commissioner Kirby said he
is seeing green house number signs in his area
rather than the blue signs. Chairman Smith said
he has also seen mile markers where he hadn’t
before. Mr. Gutshall said if someone is putting
mile markers out in the county, they should
contact Road and Bridge.
Connie DeCoe-Munier and
Sonny Munier asked Mr. Gutshall about various
Road and Bridge related issues.
Commissioners tended to
administrative duties.
Mr. Gutshall, Mr. Munier
and Ms. DeCoe-Munier left the meeting.
Commissioner Kirby moved to
approve the minutes of April 30 and
May 1, 2012. Chairman Smith yielded
the chair to second. Motion passed unanimously.
9:30 a.m., Commissioners
considered the 2012 Alcohol Beverage License
Application filed by Super 1 Foods to sell
bottled or canned beer and retail wine to be
consumed off premises. Present were: Chairman
Smith, Commissioner Kirby and Deputy Clerk
Michelle Rohrwasser. The proceedings were
recorded.
The application and
applicable fees have been received.
Commissioners have yet to receive the 2012 City
of Bonners Ferry Retail
Alcohol Permit, the 2012
Panhandle Health District Permit and the 2012
State of Idaho Retail
Alcohol Beverage License.
Commissioner Kirby moved to
approve the 2012 County Alcoholic Beverage
License for Manito Super 1 Foods, Inc., dba
Bonners Ferry Super 1 Foods, to sell canned and
bottled beer and retail wine to be consumed off
premises after all applicable documentation has
been received. Chairman Smith yielded the chair
to second. Motion passed unanimously.
The proceedings ended at 9:32 a.m.
Commissioners tended to
administrative duties.
9:50 a.m., Deputy Clerk Nancy Ryals
joined the meting.
9:50 a.m., Commissioner Kirby moved
to go into closed session under Idaho Code
#31-874. Chairman Smith yielded the chair to
second. Motion passed unanimously. Commissioner
Kirby moved to go out of closed session.
Chairman Smith yielded the chair to second.
Motion passed unanimously.
Commissioner Kirby moved to
stipulate to hold off on the appeal hearing for
Indigent Application #2012-13 to allow for a
formal deposition requested by the appellant.
Chairman Smith yielded the chair to second.
Motion passed unanimously.
Commissioner Kirby moved to
deny Indigent Application #2012-20. Chairman
Smith yielded the chair to second. Motion passed
unanimously.
Deputy Clerk Nancy Ryals
left the meeting.
10:00 a.m., Chief Deputy
Treasurer Sue Larson, Deputy Assessor Ken
Carpenter and property owner Rebecca Corey
joined the meeting to discuss Ms. Corey’s
request to have her taxes lowered.
Ms. Corey informed
Commissioners she is hoping to get the circuit
breaker exemption in order to lower her tax
bill. Chairman Smith said he had reviewed
information on Ms. Corey’s taxes as to how much
is owed for land and property. Chairman Smith
said everything the County could credit has
already been done so there isn’t anything the
Treasurer’s Office or Assessor’s Office can do
as the deadlines have passed for the circuit
breaker, etc. Ms. Corey said this was not a
hardship situation, but she is looking for some
relief. Chairman Smith said there is nothing
legally the County can do. There is nothing
Commissioners can legally do to change the taxes
as the other offices have done what they can do
legally.
Mr. Carpenter said Ms.
Corey’s home is valued at 40% complete and it is
basically valued as a shed. It was suggested
that Ms. Corey fill out a hardship exemption
application to be considered by Commissioners.
The meeting with Ms. Corey,
Chief Deputy Treasurer Larson and Deputy
Assessor Carpenter ended at 10:05 a.m.
Commissioners tended to
administrative duties.
There being no further
business for the morning session, Commissioners
recessed for lunch at 10:15 a.m.
1:30 p.m., Commissioners
reconvened for the afternoon session with
Chairman Ron Smith, Commissioner Dan Dinning,
Commissioner Walt Kirby, and Deputy Clerk
Michelle Rohrwasser.
1:30 p.m., County Attorney Phil
Robinson also joined the meeting.
Commissioners reviewed
claims for payment. Funds totals are as follows:
Current Expense
$74,960.80
Road & Bridge
50,092.83
Airport
3,472.57
District Court
8,334.22
Justice Fund
53,442.03
911 Funds
147.82
Hospital, Operation
22,194.89
Indigent & Charity
34,766.36
Parks and Recreation
6,741.72
Revaluation
407.16
Solid Waste
61,906.85
Tort
1,371.36
Veterans Memorial
210.78
Weeds
2,527.30
Restorium
18,123.29
Waterways
243.45
Hospital Supplemental Levy
2,375.35
Grant, Fire Mitigation
7,136.53
TOTAL
$348,455.31
Citizens are invited to
inspect detailed records on file in the
Courthouse (individual claims & Commissioners’
allowance & warrant register record 2012).
1:30 p.m., Clerk Glenda Poston and
County Coroner Mike Mellett joined the meeting.
Commissioner Dinning moved
to amend today’s agenda for 2:30 p.m., in
regards to discussing the Caribou Critical
Habitat issue and signing the comment letter due
to being a time sensitive matter as the comment
letter is being prepared and needs to be
received by May 21, 2012. Commissioner Kirby
second. Motion passed unanimously.
Commissioner Dinning
authorized the Chairman to sign the Caribou
Critical Habitat comment letter when received
and as approved by legal counsel. Commissioner
Kirby second. Motion passed unanimously.
Commissioner Dinning said
he estimates the final letter to be ready this
week.
Mr. Mellett said he had
spoken to Clerk Glenda Poston about his request
to combine morgue rent and his salary with the
understanding that when he is no longer coroner,
these payments will be split again. Mr. Mellett
said this is a retirement matter for him and
potentially, in the future when he retires, the
morgue rent and his salary will be split again.
Commissioner Dinning moved
to sign the Accident Health Care Form as
requested by a County employee with the
understanding the form is just for supplemental
insurance benefits. Commissioner Kirby second.
Motion passed unanimously.
Those present resumed
discussion of combining morgue rent and salary.
Attorney Robinson suggested reviewing this
through the Public Employees Retirement System (PERSI)
although he has not had any problems with this
and he explained
Bonner
County’s experience. Mr. Mellett
said it is raising his salary by the amount of
the morgue rent. It was said Commissioners would
have troubles if they had to adjust this in the
middle of a budget year.
Commissioner Dinning asked
if it is fair to increase
Boundary County’s
contribution. Mr. Mellett said he just wanted
Commissioners to think about this. Commissioner
Dinning said as the County goes down the road
Commissioners may need to redraft a contract and
Mr. Mellett added that he can see the County
wanting the ability to split the pay down the
road. Mr. Mellett said what coroners are paid in
this state is all over the board for various
reasons. Mr. Mellett discussed running for
another term, but after that term is up he
doesn’t know if he will run again so it makes
some sense to him to take a look at these things
now.
Mr. Mellett said
non-funeral director coroners come in and the
salaries are adjusted, but he is not looking at
the comparables as much as combining the least
expensive.
Chairman Smith and Clerk
Poston mentioned worker’s compensation and
affects to social security and life insurance.
Mr. Mellett discussed his
current budget and said if he has nothing come
up he will squeak through, but he may break the
budget due to having five autopsies. Mr. Mellett
discussed a matter involving an unclaimed body,
records of DNA samples, and the inability to
file an indigent application as he does not have
a name.
1:50 p.m., Deputy Clerk Nancy Ryals
joined the meeting at Commissioners’ request.
Commissioner Dinning asked
what the requirements are for preserving the
body. Mr. Mellett said if the deceased is not
identified he will not know if there were
assets. Mr. Mellett said he doesn’t think the
Coroner’s Office has authority to cremate. The
costs for a gravesite and what is associated
with that could cost $3,500, and as soon as that
bill goes through Mr. Mellett said he will break
his budget. The cemetery marker records would
have to be identified as John Doe.
Mr. Mellett, Clerk Poston
and Deputy Clerk Ryals left the meeting at
2:00 p.m.
2:00 p.m., Boundary
Volunteer Ambulance Attorney Brian Woods,
Boundary Volunteer Ambulance Chief Ken Baker,
Connie DeCoe-Munier, Sonny Munier, Mike Brown
with Blue Sky Broadcasting, Jeff Perkins from
Boundary Community Hospital, City of Bonners
Ferry Assistant Administrator David Sims, City
of Bonners Administrator Stephen Boorman, and
Bonners Ferry City Council Member Tom Mayo
joined the meeting. Clerk Glenda Poston,
Treasurer Jenny Fessler and County Attorney Phil
Robinson were also present.
Chairman Smith said
Commissioners and Boundary Volunteer Ambulance (BVA)
have had a meeting in Commissioners’ Office and
had a second meeting in the ambulance barn.
Chairman Smith said during these meetings he
made it clear the Ambulance District had been
established without funding. Even if there had
been funding established it would not have been
available until December 2013 and this is
information received from the State Tax
Commission. Chairman Smith said secondly, the
letter Commissioners received from BVA requested
funding of $36,000 through the month of June for
what BVA calls “Mary Jane runs” and then funding
beyond that. Chairman Smith said at those
meetings he explained that there is no pot of
money the County can dip into.
Chairman Smith said the
County does have two expense accounts: one being
in Current Expense and the other to be used for
emergencies and in this case, it is not an
emergency at this point.
Chairman Smith said he,
possibly unbeknownst to the other Commissioners,
was going to recommend funding of .02% as
allowed by Idaho Code for these services.
Chairman Smith said he would like to see BVA put
their budget for this year at $40,000, which is
$32,000 more than BVA’s normal budget and then
work on the following budget this time next
year. This is where the discussions were left.
Chairman Smith asked Mr.
Baker if he had received a budget request and
Mr. Baker said Deputy Clerk Rohrwasser may have
sent him one. Chairman Smith mentioned this
budget request would have come from Clerk Glenda
Poston. Chairman Smith asked Mr. Baker if he had
completed the budget request and explained that
every department submits this request to the
County when going out for a levy. Chairman Smith
asked if BVA has made a decision or what is the
purpose of this meeting.
Mr. Baker said he came in
last week to schedule an executive session.
Chairman Smith said there is no need for an
executive session. The only purpose for this
meeting is for BVA to tell the County if they
are going to accept the offer he mentioned.
Chairman Smith said there is no negotiation, no
wriggle room and that is what he tried to tell
BVA. Chairman Smith said there is nothing for
the new Ambulance District. As of October 1, 2012, the County could
budget $40,000 and then look at the following
year.
Chairman Smith said he was
told BVA wanted to have two, two and one half
hour meetings and a special session on Wednesday
and he questioned why this amount of time is
needed as there aren’t negotiations.
Attorney
Woods said BVA is a non-profit corporation and
has nothing to do with
County
Commissioners
or with Boundary
County
at all. BVA is a private contractor the County
is hiring, or not hiring, to perform a service
at whatever level is fair to both. If BVA feels
they are not getting paid enough, it is BVA’s
prerogative to simply stop providing this
service. Chairman Smith said that is what we’re
asking.
Attorney Woods said bottom
line is BVA has a lot of contractual demands
that need to be satisfied and if those demands
are not satisfied, then BVA is going to stop
providing the service and the County can figure
out how else to get the service provided for.
Chairman Smith asked if that is BVA’s response
then. Attorney Woods asked why Commissioners
would not want to have the discussion. Chairman
Smith said because there is no money to discuss.
Attorney Woods said there is absolutely money
there to discuss. Attorney Woods said anytime he
hears there is no money there, he can’t help but
to turn around and look at the budget and really
critically evaluate where and how the County is
currently spending its money.
Attorney Woods said he
happens to know the County spends $900,000 per
year on garbage service and Commissioners are
telling him they can somehow make sense of
providing garbage service for $900,000 per year
and spending $8,000 allocated to providing
statutorily mandated ambulance service to people
of this County. Chairman Smith said yes as the
landfill is fee based; not levy based. Attorney
Woods said he really doesn’t care how the County
gets the money and it is not a concern of his.
Chairman Smith explained those fees cannot be
used for ambulance or anything else as they are
strictly for garbage. Attorney Woods said the
County has a .02% levy they could possibly
assess today; there are emergency levy
possibilities and all kinds of funds. Chairman
Smith said this is not an emergency. Attorney
Woods said it is an emergency if the County
doesn’t have a contract to provide this service
that it’s required to provide. Chairman Smith
said then it becomes an emergency. Attorney
Woods informed Chairman Smith the County is
about at that point. Chairman Smith said if
Attorney Woods is going to that point, it
doesn’t necessarily mean the County is going to
hire BVA to provide that service. Attorney Woods
said absolutely. Chairman Smith said
Commissioners need to know if BVA is going to
accept the $40,000 or are they going to close
down. Attorney Woods said that is stating it is
my way or the highway, which is ridiculously
unproductive and very unprofessional. Attorney
Woods asked why Chairman Smith thinks Chief
Baker and the good group of county residents
have to sit here and Chairman Smith tell them
point blank it’s $40,000 or nothing; take it or
leave it. Chairman Smith said he has the
authority to say that. Attorney Woods asked why
Chairman Smith thinks that someone else will
come to this County and provide this service for
$40,000 per year.
Chairman Smith said BVA and
Commissioners did well when they met the last
time and one of the ambulance members said that
he was not going to quit. Now Attorney Woods is
back in here and that is when the headache
starts. Chairman Smith said Commissioners are
not going to discuss all of this right now
because this matter will be added to the agenda
during a time when the County’s attorney is
present. Attorney Woods said the County’s
attorney is present. Chairman Smith said the
attorney is not present for this meeting.
Attorney Woods said he wanted it stated on the
record that County Attorney Phil Robinson is
physically present in this room while this
discussion is occurring.
Attorney Woods said his
client has the contractual right to terminate
their services with 30 days notice. Attorney
Woods said he wanted to point out the
Commissioners are asking his client and their
Board to assume a huge liability and he has been
trying to make Commissioners understand what is
at stake here. Attorney Woods said he
understands what is at stake as he is a
commercial litigator, state planning and a
certified public accountant. There is a huge
liability to the people of this County,
according to Attorney Woods. Attorney Woods said
his client and Board are chronically under
funded. The people the Commissioners are relying
on who stated they will not quit are the people
running 10 to 15 runs per year. There are 800
calls per year and if BVA doesn’t provide an
ambulance to respond to those calls, it has a
huge liability. Because of the contractual
obligation to provide those services, Attorney
Woods said he is not very excited about this as
BVA is relying on approximately four to six
EMT’s to show up and reliably answer calls rain,
snow, sleet and shine. There are four to five
volunteers doing the lion’s share of the calls,
there are units that are old, and funding is not
sufficient. BVA is splitting $55 between three
EMT’s who spend three to four hours on average
on a call. BVA has had chronically underpaid
members as there has been no choice.
Attorney Woods said the
first time Chief Baker wakes up early in the
morning and says he can’t do it anymore, those
liabilities are presented upon BVA, Chief Baker,
Commissioners, and people of this County.
Attorney Woods said Commissioners are asking BVA
to continue to assume providing this service for
$40,000 per year and he is here to say they
simply cannot do this.
Attorney Woods said he
knows Commissioners contacted
Bonner County
to find out how much it would cost for them to
provide emergency services. The cost was $1,000
per day and that is a lot more than $40,000.
Attorney Woods said if his client walks, they
are a ditch digger and unlike the guy digging
the ditch, there is a huge liability. Attorney
Woods said he has litigated cases like this and
this is serious. Attorney Woods said he is a
certified public accountant and in looking BVA’s
books, it took him seconds to see what kind of
problems they have.
Attorney Woods gave an
example of EMT’s trying to pick up an extremely
overweight person and hurting their back as
potentials for injuries to EMT’s. EMT’s cannot
provide this service as that is an obligation
that cannot be fulfilled. Commissioners are
asking BVA to provide this service for next to
nothing and it is embarrassing. Attorney Woods
said he is trying hard not to give a fire and
brimstone speech as this discussion could get a
whole lot worse.
Attorney Woods said his
client needs the emergency .02% funding now,
which is $175,000, but since BVA is such a nice
group of people; to a fault nice. That is what
BVA is. Attorney Woods said Commissioners want
to get mad, blame people and point a finger
because of frustration and that needs to start
and stop with him. Attorney Woods said he is
trying to get the point across that this is
serious and it needs to be taken seriously.
Chairman Smith asked Attorney Woods where
“angry” is coming from and if he has heard him
be angry. Attorney Woods said yes. Chairman
Smith said frustration is different than angry.
Attorney Woods said he has tried for the last
six months to get across this point that he is
gently, but firming trying to make that this is
a very serious problem and it needs a solution.
BVA has worked thanklessly behind the scenes for
the last 27 years, 24 hours per day, seven days
per week to provide this service.
Attorney Woods said he
wants for BVA is $175,000 per year as that is
the amount .02% would yield, but BVA would
settle for $80,000 per year starting from
January 2012. This amount doesn’t have to be
paid right now, but sometime before
December 31, 2012, the County needs
to pay BVA $80,000. BVA also wants $80,000 by
the end of next year.
Chairman Smith said the
County cannot raise the levy more than 3% anyhow
so that answers that question. Attorney Woods
said the County could reallocate funds. BVA
wants $80,000 per year and to have Commissioners
immediately convene a meeting of the ambulance
service district to pass their levy at the .04%
level now, according to Attorney Woods.
Chairman Smith asked if
this is what BVA wants or what Attorney Woods
wants. Attorney Woods said he is an attorney and
he is representing his client. Chairman Smith
asked if this is what BVA wants or what Attorney
Woods is telling BVA they want. Chairman Smith
asked Chief Baker if this is what he is allowing
Attorney Woods to come here and say to
Commissioners. Mr. Baker said the six or eight
people that are the core people. Attorney Woods
said no, the Board of Directors is the only
group that speaks on behalf of his client. The
Board of Directors relies on approximately 15 to
20 people and there are six to seven of those
people who go on most of those runs and take the
lion’s share of the responsibility. Attorney
Woods said of course he told his client that
when the rubber meets the road, who are you
going to be listening to? Who are you going to
pay attention to in terms of BVA’s membership?
Its’ the EMT’s who are actually going on the
runs because the Board doesn’t go on the runs.
Attorney Woods said his client relies on the
members to go on the runs and most of those
member runs are being done by a few people.
Attorney Woods said he tells his clients to be
careful about what they commit to and the level
of the commitment.
Attorney Woods explained
where BVA is as an organization in that BVA
wants .04%, $80,000 for the next two years and
needs the entire .04% under a seven year
contract. Attorney Woods recapped by listing a
seven year contract, .04% levy and all of this
comes to his client. For years 2012 and 2013, it
is $80,000 for each year. Attorney Woods added
that the County needs to buy some land or if the
County doesn’t want to buy land, use land
already owned by the County and construct a
building. Attorney Woods said BVA will have to
move from their volunteer membership peer model
they are on now and get some paid professional
staff. BVA can’t afford to hire more staff
otherwise they would so they could reliably,
consistently, and permanently show up for calls.
Attorney Woods spoke of BVA needing separate
quarters for male and female EMT’s. BVA can’t
build a building because they need the entire
original request of $342,000 in order to replace
and maintain equipment and pay members something
decent.
Attorney Woods mentioned a
book for Commissioners to read as it discusses
the problem of diminishing volunteerism not just
in Boundary
County, but in the
United States.
There is a huge liability in relying on the
volunteer model.
BVA’s Chief, members and
Board of Directors are not immune to liability.
BVA wants to fix this situation, but they need
funds to do this. BVA can’t afford a building so
they want the County to build them a building so
they can house responders and the ambulance
units. BVA needs a seven year contract so they
can make commitments and investments in their
equipment, supplies and gurneys as the current
equipment is old and to have the ability to pay
professional staff.
Attorney
Woods said people like Chief Ken Baker are
simply worn out.
Attorney Woods said BVA is
not going to provide the County with their
financial information as he doesn’t understand
why the County needs it since they receive BVA’s
990 Tax Form every year. There has been
bookkeeping problems because BVA cannot afford
to pay good quality people to work on BVA’s
books.
Commissioner Kirby said for
all of these 47 years why hasn’t BVA come to the
County before and filled out a form for what
they need like other departments. Commissioner
Kirby asked why for the last 10 years that he is
aware of, did BVA not bring a budget request in.
Commissioner Kirby said the County has at times
withheld the allotted $8,000 in order to nudge
them to complete a budget request. Chairman
Smith clarified those funds were withheld as the
yearly audit had not been received. Had BVA
asked for funding there could have possibly been
some funding available. Commissioner Kirby said
BVA has not done this and now Attorney Woods
comes in the last 30 days and puts the screws to
the County. BVA will have to play the same game
as everyone else in the County plays the game.
Commissioner Kirby said the County has to play
the game with the State who has to play with the
federal government. Commissioner Kirby said the
County cannot move and BVA needs to understand
that the County can only scrape from the budget
for ambulance service for the rest of this year,
which the County is offering to do. This is the
best the County can do. The County offers
$40,000 and BVA wants $80,000. If the County
said it would give BVA $80,000, BVA would want
more and it just goes on. Commissioner Kirby
said nobody has yet offered a business plan of
any sort that tells the County what BVA is going
to do with all of this taxpayer money.
Attorney Woods said his
client does not need to submit a business plan.
Commissioner Kirby said then BVA is not going to
get any money. Attorney Woods said his client
doesn’t need to submit anything to the County.
BVA is a ditch digger and the Commissioners do
not need to worry about BVA managing their “P’s
and Q’s”. What the Commissioners need to worry
about is whether or not BVA is providing a
service, which they have been hired to do. The
County is not lending BVA money, the County is
not a bank and the County is not going to get
the money back once it has been given to them.
The County could fire BVA if they don’t do their
job, but as long as BVA is doing their job all
BVA is required to do is see the money from the
County which they have contractually negotiated
to receive and to perform the job the County has
hired them to do. BVA does not need a business
plan. Attorney Woods said for clarity that
internally, BVA absolutely needs a business plan
such as a five year and a 10 year plan for
themselves, but they do not owe a business plan
to the County.
Commissioner Kirby said if
BVA went to get money from a bank, they would
present the bank with a business plan in order
to decide on funding and the County is asking
for no more than a business plan. Attorney Woods
said if Commissioners asked Medstar or
Bonner
County for a business plan, they
would not give the County their plan and nobody
else will remotely entertain giving the
Commissioners a business plan.
Attorney Woods said as to
Commissioner Kirby’s question as to why BVA did
not come in and request additional funds, he
doesn’t know as he wasn’t here yet. Attorney
Woods said BVA told him they had requested funds
from the County in years 2001, 2008 and in 2010.
Attorney Woods said the budget request form
Commissioners talk about is for department heads
for an inter-County budget, not for a
contractual service. It isn’t up to BVA to
submit a budget to the County; it is up to the
County to say for example, “we’re going to need
to replace that copier”, because Chief Baker is
not going to provide a budget request.
Chairman Smith said BVA is
a part of the County’s budget, and he doesn’t
care if Attorney Woods wants to call BVA a
contractor as they are a part of the County’s
budget. Anytime someone is within the County’s
budget they have got to submit a budget request
so the County will know what to put into that
budget for that following year. If ambulance
service is going to be a part of the county
budget, they are going to submit a budget
request. Chairman Smith said if the County
doesn’t get a request from BVA, how does the
County know they need money, how does the County
know there may be problems or if BVA has
anything going on? Chairman Smith said he was
not in office during year 2001 so he doesn’t
know what happened then, but he doesn’t recall
anyone coming in saying they need more money.
Last year he asked Chief Baker to submit a
budget to Commissioners so they will know what
BVA needs and Commissioners could review it, but
Commissioners did not receive a budget request.
Chairman Smith said he doesn’t care about the
term “contractually” that Attorney Woods uses.
BVA and the County did not talk “contractually”
until Attorney Woods got into the picture as
Commissioners were dealing with BVA on what they
needed for the ambulance association. Attorney
Woods said that is maybe why we’re in this
position. Chairman Smith asked if there would
have been enough sense for someone to say “we
need this?”
Attorney Woods said it is
not solely BVA’s responsibility to come to
Commissioners to tell them what BVA needs.
Commissioners can walk to BVA’s Office located
behind the Courthouse to ask them how they are
doing and if they need anything because this is
a statutorily mandated obligation the County
must fulfill. Attorney Woods said it is not a
one way street and can work both ways. BVA
doesn’t need to submit budget information on a
form that says it’s to elected officials and
department heads because BVA is not a
department; they are a contractor.
Commissioner Dinning said
part of the problem, which Attorney Woods is
alluding to, is the miscommunication that has
historically been there. This is a perceived
community organization, however it was done and
whatever the organization’s name is. The
community has perceived this association as a
part of its own. There have been misconceptions
over the years that the ambulance service was
Boundary
County’s. There has been ownership
of this, right, wrong or indifferent, by the
community. When we worked as a community with
BVA, the County was always working the best they
could with what they knew, for the benefit of
this community. Commissioner Dinning said he has
sat here for that whole length of time Attorney
Woods talked about in regards to the requests
and he doesn’t recollect a request from BVA.
Commissioner Dinning said
the things that tend to happen and however we
have progressed, we’re now at a point where BVA
is stepping up from the perspective of a
community organization now to a separate
business entity in totality that will be
perceived as separate from the community and if
that is the case, that is fine. The community
understands that BVA is a separate organization
and it doesn’t have to show the County anything.
But there has been a level of community that has
been involved and that is now changing.
Commissioner Dinning said the reason the audits
were requested in the first place back before
his time as Commissioner was probably because of
financial problems. And
Boundary
County, who is ultimately on the
hook, wanted to be assured the financial
operations of that entity were rolling forward
or being accounted for as
Boundary
County is the entity who has to
provide the service. Commissioner Dinning said
he understands BVA saying they don’t have to
provide financial information and that changes
that relationship from what has historically
been assumed from the community.
Commissioner Dinning said
he has had one conversation with
Bonner County
and he was never quoted a figure. That figure
Attorney Woods quoted came from the news media.
Commissioner Dinning said one of the things that
consistently tends to happen here is, however
there is miscommunication, Attorney Woods has
referred to 800 calls and the community is
assuming there has been 800 separate incidents,
when in fact that is not the case. When BVA
sends three ambulance units out that is called
three calls. Chief Baker said when three
patients are transported and extrication, that
is three calls. Commissioner Dinning said he
wanted to clarify that could be on a single
accident. Chief Baker said if there are three
patients, the State of
Idaho
says that is considered three. Commissioner
Dinning said the community thinks that is three
separate calls.
Commissioner Dinning said
at this point he is sensing the BVA organization
is changing and changing this relationship.
Commissioner Dinning said he contacted the
County’s insurance carrier, Idaho Counties Risk
Management Program (ICRMP), and they quoted to
him there is no mandated level of service in
Idaho Code. So if BVA is saying they’re on the
hook, but Commissioner Dinning said he thinks
the community is the one on the hook.
Chief Baker said his State
of Idaho EMS
licensure says he is to provide service 24 hours
per day seven days per week. Commissioner
Dinning said what he is perceiving is that he’s
not putting Boundary County citizens on the hook
without some kind of advisory vote of what
should be done. Commissioner Dinning said if the
community as a whole says “no” to this option or
“no” to that option, then they have told him
that they are willing to take their chances
whatever that financial obligation may be.
Commissioner Dinning said
one of his personal concerns is the amount BVA
is asking for is more than one and one half
times their annual income right now.
Commissioner Dinning said the question he asks
is if that is the case, why he should put his
decision on the community. Commissioner Dinning
said in essence his job is to represent this
community, but in this case the community should
have a real voice in what Commissioners do.
Commissioner Dinning said he would think the BVA
Board would understand the financial situation
the County is in.
Commissioner Dinning said
you can take the County’s cash assets sheet and
review it, pull out every penny of Road and
Bridge funding because none of that is available
to Commissioners as well as the landfill funds
that aren’t available to Commissioners.
Approximately one–third of the County budget is
levy money. A 3% increase equates to an increase
of approximately $130,000 or $140,000 in
totality for this County budget. This is looking
at taking two-thirds of any potential increase
out of that budget, which also is looking at
increased costs in health care. This is probably
where Chairman Smith got his figure of $40,000
as Commissioners are not trying to be
unrealistic. Commissioner Dinning asked Attorney
Woods to understand the County is at a point
similar to BVA’s. Commissioner Dinning said
Attorney Woods is telling BVA’s Board they have
to be protected and he is trying to convey that
the County doesn’t have the financial ability to
do everything BVA is looking at.
Attorney Woods said his
response to Commissioner Dinning’s statement is
to: #1 sell something and free up some cash, #2
reallocate and reprioritize as if this is not
the County’s number one priority in its budget
every year, it sure should be right up there
along with the Hospital, and #3 is that this is
not his client’s problem and he wants everyone
to hear that. BVA is going to exit stage left
and leave the County without any ambulance
service at which time the Commissioners will
have to scramble. Whatever option the County
thinks it might be trying to get by way of a
substitute is not going to provide a third,
fourth, or tenth the level of service that BVA
is providing and it will not be dependable long
term because these are the people of this County
and they aren’t going anywhere; and finally
someone else providing this service will be way
more expensive. That expense will hit the County
this year and a new EMS
service provider won’t want to hear from the
County about the inability to come up with money
and they will tell the County to find someone
else to come to
Boundary
County and do it.
Chairman Smith said
Attorney Woods is not listening to Commissioners
when they say there is no money. Chairman Smith
said Commissioners are being told to sell the
farm. Maybe the Commissioners should sell some
of the Sheriff’s vehicles, etc., just so the
County can meet BVA’s budget. Chairman Smith
said the last thing he said was the County would
provide $40,000 for the year and then address
the budget again next year to see what the
County has to do and asked Chief Baker to
clarify that is what he told him at the last
meeting. The County would provide BVA with
$40,000 and operate that year to see where BVA
and the County were at and where the problems
may be. The County still had the .04% levy for
the district and Commissioners would take a look
at that the next year to see where they want to
go. Chief Baker said that is what Chairman Smith
said at that meeting.
Attorney Woods said what he
is saying is that is not agreeable with this
client. Chairman Smith asked Attorney Woods that
if the County doesn’t meet the demands of
funding for BVA is BVA going to give their 30
day notice. Attorney Woods said BVA hasn’t given
their 30 day notice yet. Attorney Woods asked
Chairman Smith if he is telling him it is
Chairman Smith’s way or the highway. Chairman
Smith said he didn’t say it was his way or the
highway. Chairman Smith said what he said is the
County only has $40,000 to put in BVA’s budget
this year and Attorney Woods could interpret
that anyway he wants to.
Attorney Woods said his
client has questions it wants answers to such as
BVA wants to enter into a seven year contract.
Commissioner Dinning said he didn’t think
Commissioners could legally enter into a seven
year contract. Attorney Phil Robinson said that
is something he would not address at this time,
but as a Board of County Commissioners they
certainly could not. Attorney Woods said
Commissioners could absolutely enter into a
seven year contract.
Those present briefly
mentioned the terms of BVA and Attorney Woods
said he would explain what the County would get
for that seven year contract. BVA is asking for
the .04% levy right now or as soon as can be
convened; agreeing to $80,000 for year 2012 and
$80,000 for year 2013, and contractually
obligating the County to $342,000 to BVA
starting year 2014 until the end of the
contract. Attorney Woods said in addition the
County will agree to provide BVA with a building
in which to house people in order to provide a
more dependable and reliable ambulance service
that relies upon paid professionals.
Commissioner Dinning said
the County doesn’t even have the ability right
now to provide a building for the County’s
Probation Department and Sheriff’s deputies and
other employees and they’re renting space right
now. Attorney Woods said BVA cannot provide a
service unless they have a proper home.
Attorney Woods said BVA
wants to move into a world in which the board
members who are serving without pay, and the
Chief and people in the officer positions can go
home at night and sleep without worrying about
whether or not they’re relaying on solely on
unpaid volunteers who may or may not respond to
a call. That is the concern.
Attorney Woods said there
people who can say they are a member of BVA and
do 20 calls per year and Commissioners would
expect him, as a legal counsel, and Chief Baker,
and the Board of Directors, to enter into a
contractual obligation with the County to
provide service all over the County. Attorney
Woods said two calls came from the Mud Bog at
the same time. In this scenario, BVA is only
able to rely on a single person. The world where
this happened existed, but it doesn’t exist any
more. Attorney Woods said since he’s been there
and done that for some of the biggest firms and
he is well aware of the fact that nobody outside
of this County is going to care. When the
chickens come home to roost, it won’t be in
Boundary County, this will be in Coeur d’ Alene
or Boise and those people will not be
sympathetic to Boundary County. Chairman Smith
said he takes that as a threat.
Attorney Robinson said he
is confused by what Attorney Woods is saying.
Attorney Robinson said Attorney Woods is talking
about a .04% levy paid entirely to BVA. Attorney
Woods said correct. In addition is to acquire
land, build quarters and construct a building
for the ambulance. Attorney Woods said and to
lease the building to BVA for $100 per year for
the term of the contract. Attorney Woods said
when the contract has reached its term the
County could enter into a contract with someone
else. Attorney Robinson said for clarification
that this is addition to the .04% levy and
Attorney Woods said that was correct.
Commissioner Kirby said
that is in addition to the $200,000 to $220,000
BVA already earns. Attorney Woods said that was
correct as well as positive feedback from
inter-facility transfers, which would yield
additional monies to BVA.
Chairman Smith reiterated
that he had mentioned the County would provide
$40,000 and then look at the budget again, but
BVA is saying they want it now and they want a
seven year contract. Chairman Smith said
speaking for himself BVA is not going to see
that from him as he is not agreeing to anything
like that. Chairman Smith said if BVA wants to
sue him then they can sue him. Chairman Smith
said to Chief Baker that he could do anything he
wanted to with the $40,000. Chairman Smith said
to Chief Baker that he has tried to work with
him in the past, but Chief Baker, rather than
trying to work something out, would rather bring
Attorney Woods in here with the threats and of
being in court. Attorney Woods said nobody is
talking about suing as this is talking about
providing a service.
Chief Baker said he came to
this discussion in order to work toward BVA’s
future. Chairman Smith said that is what he just
finished telling Chief Baker. Chairman Smith
said he just finished talking about $40,000 and
then talk about the status of things and what
needs to be done, but no, Attorney Woods wants
to do this now or yesterday and Chairman Smith
said he is not going there. If the two other
Commissioners want to talk about entering into
an agreement, then go ahead, but he will not
have any part of that. The only thing he will
have a part of is putting $40,000 in BVA’s
budget this year and work out future budget
details later.
Commissioner Dinning said
from Commissioners’ perspective the community
needs to hear what BVA has to say and to hear
what Commissioners have to say as it will gain
understanding for them and an understanding of
this issue that may or may not have been out.
Commissioner Dinning said he would like Attorney
Woods and Chief Baker to take back to their
Board what Commissioners have offered and said.
Commissioner Dinning said Commissioners want the
ambulance service to be viable, but are having a
difficult time figuring out how to meet what the
Board wants. Commissioner Dinning said he knows
the County cannot afford to build a building.
Commissioner Dinning said he just doesn’t know
if those are negotiating points. Commissioner
Dinning said he thinks it would be wise to have
another conversation.
Attorney Woods said the BVA
Board has given him parameters as well as he and
Chief Baker wide latitude on the remaining
points in terms we haven’t even gotten into
today. Commissioner Dinning said just so he
understands correctly, the Board has turned all
negotiating power over to Attorney Woods and
Chief Baker. Attorney Woods said correct, over
to himself actually. Attorney Woods said he
heard Commissioners made a lot of statements
about $40,000 so then he is also hearing that
Commissioners want his client to send them the
30 day notice to stop providing service, which
will create and emergency and then the County
can attach an emergency levy to get funding.
Attorney Woods said that is what he has read
sort of coming out of this.
Chairman Smith said if the
County has to declare an emergency, it will not
be working with BVA. Attorney Woods asked
Chairman Smith if he is going to throw BVA under
the bus after 47 years. Commissioner Kirby said
Attorney Woods is the person saying BVA is going
to quit. Attorney Woods said because BVA has
been trying to work with the Commissioners since
last October.
Chairman Smith asked
Attorney Woods if there was anything he wanted
to present to Commissioners. Attorney Woods said
no and that he and Chief Baker would go back and
talk about it. Chairman Smith asked Attorney
Woods if he had more to say as there is no way
he is going to get more than $40,000 in that
budget this year. Chairman Smith said that
Attorney Woods is not going to get him to commit
to anything beyond this year, but before next
year, Commissioners would be glad to talk about
where this matter is going. Right now $40,000 is
all that would be put into BVA’s budget.
Chairman Smith asked Commissioner Dinning if he
saw any wriggle room. Commissioner Dinning said
not wriggle room, but there are a lot of things
that could be discussed. Commissioner Dinning
said Commissioners and BVA could discuss options
that aren’t financial and he doesn’t see any
reason to cut off discussions. Chairman Smith
said he is talking about offering $40,000 and he
asked Commissioner Dinning if he thought there
was the ability to give BVA more. Commissioner
Dinning said he couldn’t see this second the
ability to offer more without looking.
Commissioner Dinning said he couldn’t even see
where Chairman Smith could come up with $40,000.
Chairman Smith said it is just like looking to
come up with funds for the rest of the budget.
Chairman Smith asked Commissioner Dinning if
that means he would look to see if Commissioners
could give BVA more. Commissioner Dinning said
that is putting words in his mouth and what he
said was there are discussion points and the
budget is not set and to say this is “it” and
there is not point in talking further. Chairman
Smith said it is “it” for him as there is no
more than $40,000. Chairman Smith said to
Commissioner Dinning if he wants to discuss it
with BVA, then he can discuss it with them, but
he is not talking about any more than $40,000
for the budget.
Chief Baker asked if that
is $40,000 for this fiscal year and
Commissioners said October 1st, which
is next fiscal year. Commissioner Dinning said
in no way does he want to end discussion.
Mr. Perkins asked
Commissioner Dinning if he wanted to do a
contract negotiation in order to come up with
something for this year. Commissioner Dinning
said in general there is more communication. Mr.
Perkins said it sounds like Commissioners are
saying because BVA is a separate entity, this is
figuring out the terms of the contract.
Commissioner Kirby said the
separate entity issue needs a lot of exploration
as BVA doesn’t understand the County’s problem
and the County may not understand the 501©3
issue. Commissioner Kirby said in order to clear
this up it will take a lot of conversation.
Commissioner Kirby said the Commissioners have
made an offer to BVA and the County is working
on its next budget.
Chairman Smith said to
clarify what he has said, he is not willing to
negotiate for more than $40,000 and as far as
talking, he doesn’t have a problem with that.
Chairman Smith said he already mentioned that
Commissioners were going to talk about planning
what to do this whole next year, but as far as
talking about increasing the $40,000, he doesn’t
want any part of it.
Commissioner Dinning said
as long as people talk there is an opportunity
to work something out so he doesn’t want BVA and
Commissioners to leave here today thinking, that
for one there has been emotions on both sides so
people should take a step back and take a break
then have discussions again. Chairman Smith
asked Commissioners Dinning what the discussions
would be about such as money. Commissioner
Dinning said he thinks there is a lot bigger
issue than money. Chairman Smith agreed.
Commissioner Dinning said one question is how we
keep moving forward for this community with the
best the community can afford. Commissioner
Dinning said he doesn’t know if there has been a
conclusion about that. Chairman Smith said he
doesn’t have a problem with that, but he doesn’t
want BVA walking out thinking because the County
is going to continue to work with them that they
will get more than $40,000.
Attorney Woods said bottom
line is this is not emotional. This is business
and very matter of fact. Attorney Woods said at
the end of the day his client is a contactor
providing a service that the County can choose
to pay for or not. If the County chooses not to
pay for it, BVA can choose not to provide it.
Attorney Woods said if the County can find
someone else to provide ambulance service for
only $40,000, good luck with that one because
that is the world in which the County will find
itself.
Chairman Smith said
Commissioners know this service will cost them
more than $40,000 and he mentioned an emergency
situation. Commissioners will then have to go
back to the taxpayers to pay for this and
Chairman Smith said he then wants to see where
the taxpayers come down. Are the taxpayers going
to come down on the County Commissioners for
trying to save them money and do this the right
way, or are the taxpayers going to come down on
BVA for not working with the County for the next
year to see how this could work correctly and
force them to go out and get a separate provider
who will cost “X” number of dollars and now go
back to the taxpayer to pay that cost. The
County would have to borrow money for the year
to fund this service and levy it against the
taxpayers. Attorney Woods said absolutely and
that is something the Commissioners could do
now, but are choosing not to do it. Attorney
Woods said the Commissioners are choosing not to
do that for the long standing 47 year
contractor. That is a decision the public will
understand extremely well, according to Attorney
Woods. Chairman Smith said the County cannot
come up with that kind of money in the normal
fashion. The County can come up with that kind
of money in an emergency situation, but the
taxpayers are going to have to pay for it.
Chairman Smith said Attorney Woods wants to go
straight to the .04% plus another $160,000 or so
and also build a building. This all started six
to eight months ago and everything was fine up
to that point.
Attorney Woods said he
agrees with Commissioner Dinning in that the
line of communications needs to stay open. This
issue has been building for really long time.
Attorney Woods said it is long overdue that
we’re having this discussion as a County about
what to do about this ambulance situation. It is
only thanks to a few really dedicated, really
very good people they have managed to get and
struggle along and survive to get to this point.
Attorney Woods said Commissioners can try and
paint those people in some sort of negative
light because they are making themselves heard,
but they have been able to save the taxpayers
huge amounts of money because of their
thankless, tireless efforts for so many years
and it’s ridiculous. Chairman Smith said we have
heard that before, but said he doesn’t why
Attorney Woods is talking about painting people
in a negative light. Attorney Woods said
Chairman Smith talked about whether taxpayers
will blame BVA or Commissioners for the
situation in which we find ourselves in.
Attorney Woods said when Chairman Smith draws a
line in the sand by saying no more than $40,000
ever, what do you think his client is going to
do to that. Chairman Smith said $40,000 is in
the upcoming budget and he had also said
Commissioners would talk that year for the next
budget. Chairman Smith said that Attorney Woods
doesn’t like to listen and that is what the
future communications are going to be.
Attorney Woods thanked
Commissioners for the time and asked if the
meeting was done.
Connie DeCoe-Munier
informed Commissioners that she is starting
Volunteer Ambulance of Boundary County (VABC)
and has quite a bit of interest in it. Ms.
DeCoe-Munier said she would provide
Commissioners with a complete budget down to the
last band-aid. Ms. DeCoe-Munier said she knows
there are other people out there who are willing
to do this. Chairman Smith said the
Commissioners aren’t there yet and Ms.
DeCoe-Munier said she does realize that. Ms.
DeCoe-Munier said she just wanted Commissioners
to know they have other options. Chairman Smith
said thank you.
Stephen Boorman said if he
could help in any place, he would be glad to.
The meeting to discuss
ambulance service ended at
3:10 p.m.
Commissioner Dinning moved
to authorize the Chairman or the Acting Chairman
in the absence of the Chairman, to sign the
Caribou Critical Habitat comment letter when it
is received later this week. Commissioner Kirby
second. Motion passed unanimously.
There being no further
business, the meeting adjourned at
3:15 p.m.
/s/
RONALD R. SMITH, Chairman
ATTEST:
/s/
GLENDA POSTON, Clerk
By: Michelle Rohrwasser,
Deputy
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